I'm not sure if there is one and simple answer to what we get from fics like that. Personally I don't read non-cons/rape fics almost at all. Not my thing. (Doesn't mean I don't read other disturbing stuff.) (All the more reason for me to want the warning against it, I guess.) But is there ever a simple answer? I tried to a non-fandom person explain lately what is coffee-shop AU and why on Earth it's so popular, and I failed.
But anyway, you mention important thing that is very important to me as well in this. Aknowledging that what you read/write is rape. That's my main problem with 50 shades - as I believe I said, sorry this comment was highly disroganized - it doesn't aknowledge this. In 50 shades it's just sex, perhaps kinky sex.
And people say it's just a book, that's the main argument I saw against criticism. And yes, they're right. It is just a book, that's why enjoying reading up rape is not illegal or anything. But the problem is not that there is rape in the story, the problem isn't even that the victim falls for the rapist and they end up together (disturbing as it is), the problem is that according to 50 shades, when someone says no in as many ways as possible and gets forced to have sex, both physically and emotionally - it's still consensual sex, which it's not.
And sure, we can read it critically, we can be as readers aware it's rape and enjoy it still as a story involving rape. But a) I think it's not same story, when you call it rape and when you call it love making. b) sadly, really lots of people don't realize this.
That's why I'm less on calling readers idiots or shaming their kinks, I'm all about telling them that they read abuse and rape. It might seem pointless, but it's not. The narration sells it as a healthy relationship, with the kinky side that gets 'cured' anyway. But the BDSM is not the problem in this, the abuse and rape are. And sadly, most of the people whom I know and who read and enjoyed the book? Didn't see it either as rape nor abuse. And that is the thing that bothers me. Because I remember being younger and stupider and writing a fic and thinking it's fine. Porn, yeah, but fine. And it was pointed out to me that it was non-con. And at first I was disbelieving, I didn't argue with this opinion, but I asked several fandom friends to read it and tell me if it's really non-con and what's going on. Now I admit I'm terrified and crept out that it wasn't obvious to me then. It wasn't even dub-con, it was pure and complete non-con.
And that's what I fight against, while ranting against 50 shades. Not all its other issues, but the fact that it doesn't aknowledge that it's about abuse and rape. The fact that most readers don't aknowledge this. And people who bring it up are told they're over-reacting. No, over-reacting is burning books and forbidding them, not telling what is written inside of them. So if I ever get dragged into the conversation about 50 shades with someone who enjoys it, I just want to make sure they enjoy what's in there and not what's its sold as. (And if possible I try to convince them to join the fandom, because really, life is too short for bad porn. ;))
Although, on the comment on what people see in rape fics/stories. I have to say I once read that it's just us - especially women - being finally free to enjoy the kinkier stuff or even just the sex. Because the victim after all is not a weird kinky slut or any other slur that might've been thrown at them, no they're forced to experience this, so the responsibitliy or shame is not on them. Which I guess maybe somehow does influence us, but it's like one grain of sand in a full sandcastle, because everyone has different motivations and also, imo, non-cons are various as well. Personally I can only stand some of them, usually only with evil characters, where I can just enjoy how twisted they are, rather than anything else. I don't I think it's just a very complex thing, but as I said: I don't sham people's kinks. Even if I find them weird and disturbing. Even if in rl they'd be seriously illegal and demaging. In literary world, everything is fine. But I think it's a key point to be aware of what one is reading, that's all.
If this comment makes even less sense, I'm sorry, I'm falling asleep as I type. XD
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regna
(no subject)
Date: 2015-03-09 11:00 pm (UTC)But anyway, you mention important thing that is very important to me as well in this. Aknowledging that what you read/write is rape. That's my main problem with 50 shades - as I believe I said, sorry this comment was highly disroganized - it doesn't aknowledge this. In 50 shades it's just sex, perhaps kinky sex.
And people say it's just a book, that's the main argument I saw against criticism. And yes, they're right. It is just a book, that's why enjoying reading up rape is not illegal or anything. But the problem is not that there is rape in the story, the problem isn't even that the victim falls for the rapist and they end up together (disturbing as it is), the problem is that according to 50 shades, when someone says no in as many ways as possible and gets forced to have sex, both physically and emotionally - it's still consensual sex, which it's not.
And sure, we can read it critically, we can be as readers aware it's rape and enjoy it still as a story involving rape. But a) I think it's not same story, when you call it rape and when you call it love making. b) sadly, really lots of people don't realize this.
That's why I'm less on calling readers idiots or shaming their kinks, I'm all about telling them that they read abuse and rape. It might seem pointless, but it's not. The narration sells it as a healthy relationship, with the kinky side that gets 'cured' anyway. But the BDSM is not the problem in this, the abuse and rape are. And sadly, most of the people whom I know and who read and enjoyed the book? Didn't see it either as rape nor abuse. And that is the thing that bothers me. Because I remember being younger and stupider and writing a fic and thinking it's fine. Porn, yeah, but fine. And it was pointed out to me that it was non-con. And at first I was disbelieving, I didn't argue with this opinion, but I asked several fandom friends to read it and tell me if it's really non-con and what's going on. Now I admit I'm terrified and crept out that it wasn't obvious to me then. It wasn't even dub-con, it was pure and complete non-con.
And that's what I fight against, while ranting against 50 shades. Not all its other issues, but the fact that it doesn't aknowledge that it's about abuse and rape. The fact that most readers don't aknowledge this. And people who bring it up are told they're over-reacting. No, over-reacting is burning books and forbidding them, not telling what is written inside of them. So if I ever get dragged into the conversation about 50 shades with someone who enjoys it, I just want to make sure they enjoy what's in there and not what's its sold as. (And if possible I try to convince them to join the fandom, because really, life is too short for bad porn. ;))
Although, on the comment on what people see in rape fics/stories. I have to say I once read that it's just us - especially women - being finally free to enjoy the kinkier stuff or even just the sex. Because the victim after all is not a weird kinky slut or any other slur that might've been thrown at them, no they're forced to experience this, so the responsibitliy or shame is not on them. Which I guess maybe somehow does influence us, but it's like one grain of sand in a full sandcastle, because everyone has different motivations and also, imo, non-cons are various as well. Personally I can only stand some of them, usually only with evil characters, where I can just enjoy how twisted they are, rather than anything else. I don't I think it's just a very complex thing, but as I said: I don't sham people's kinks. Even if I find them weird and disturbing. Even if in rl they'd be seriously illegal and demaging. In literary world, everything is fine. But I think it's a key point to be aware of what one is reading, that's all.
If this comment makes even less sense, I'm sorry, I'm falling asleep as I type. XD